Evangelisation in der Uni (Karlsruhe)

[karnadi]

Sorry for not using Deutsch, but here is something that I wrote:

It’s Tuesday afternoon and I entered the lecture hall to attend the weekly lecture in KIT, Karlsruhe. I’m studying Informatik there. At the start of the lecture a female student stand in front of the class giving the usual advertisement about some other lecture events held in KIT. But this time, it got my attention. The title of this heavily promoted “lecture” is “Der Urknall und die Gottesfrage”, brought by Prof. Dr. Thomas Schimmel, and it is held in Gerthsen Hörsaal, KIT on 10th June 2010. Yes, it is using the University building.

For the next 5 minutes or so the student talks and talks. She said something like this, “We know how Big Bang happened, but who made it? Why he made it?” After she spread the brochure and just when I thought it was over, I have to endure another promotional message from the lecturer himself, the professor of Elektrotechnik, KIT. He said he had visited some of the lecture series and found it interesting, and after that he is babbling about the interesting topic the lecture brings.

A friend of mine visited one of the lectures, and it was actually a lecture almost without any interaction, with only five minutes or so at the end were given to ask questions. And most (if not all) of them came from the organizers of the event themselves. For example, one of them said that the lecturer said that he didn't come to believe by his historical "analysis" of Jesus, and thus they asked him how he became a Christian.

An organization called Hochschul-SMD Karlsruhe is the organizer of the (obviously Christian) lecture series. Here is the mission from their website¹):

"Uns verbindet der Glaube an unseren Herrn Jesus Christus, und wir haben es uns zur Aufgabe gesetzt, ihn an den verschiedenen Hochschulen in Karlsruhe zu bezeugen."

"Von Zeit zu Zeit planen wir gemeinsam Aktionen, mit denen wir unseren Mitstudis Gelegenheit bieten wollen, über Jesus nachzudenken und ihm zu begegnen."

They have held a lot of Christian “lectures” like this before (I know at least three of them also held using University building²)), and certainly they’ll do it again. They promote it heavily using brochures, also visiting a lot of lecture halls and asking permission to the lecturers to promote their events at the start of the lecture.

I came from Indonesia, a very religious country, in which these things happen all the time, but Germany? I came to Germany, hoping not to be proselytized again, and I was shocked to see this obvious evangelization activities happens in a state University, using its buildings, which are paid by tax payer money. I came to Germany several years ago expecting a secular country, and I’m disappointed.

Karl Karnadi.

1) http://www.smd-karlsruhe.de/ueber-uns.html
2) http://www.erlebt-in-karlsruhe.de/veran ... sicht.html

[musicman]

I came from Indonesia, a very religious country, in which these things happen all the time, but Germany? I came to Germany, hoping not to be proselytized again, and I was shocked to see this obvious evangelization activities happens in a state University, using its buildings, which are paid by tax payer money. I came to Germany several years ago expecting a secular country, and I’m disappointed.

Karl Karnadi.

Hi Karl,

das wird noch besser werden, wenn erst mal damit begonnen wird Imane an der Uni auszubilden. Man ist momentan sehr darum bemüht auch die nächste Narretei salonfähig zu machen.

musicman

Zitat korrigiert (geschlossen). 1v6,5M

[Nanna]

Hi Karnadi,

don't worry about the language, the Brights are an international movement and many people from our board here do speak English very well or understand it at least.

regrettably we have problems with evangelists and similar narrow-minded people in Germany as well. Since we are a very small group there is probably not much we can do about this. You need either public pressure or resistance from inside the university against such missionary undertakings. However, we could try to send protest letters to the university-administration and also help you with flyers in good German in case you want do get active yourself. IF someone of us knows people or naturalistic/atheistiic organisations in Karlsruhe they could support a protest.

I found this description on http://www.macht-glaube-sinn.de/der-urk ... frage.html . I think it supports your point of view. Underlining was edited by me.

"Der Urknall und die Gottesfrage
Ein Streifzug vom Inneren der Atome bis an die Grenzen des Universums

Der allgemein verständliche Vortrag gibt einen Einblick in die faszinierenden Welten der modernen Physik – von den Anfängen des Universums bis zur Feinabstimmung der Naturkonstanten. Beeindruckende Bilder aus den Tiefen des Kosmos und faszinierende Zahlen lassen uns staunen, und es stellt sich die Frage nach dem „Woher“. Die Ordnung in der Natur lässt das Wirken eines Schöpfers hinter der Schöpfung und ihren Gesetzen erahnen. Der bekannte Physiker und Nobelpreisträger Max Planck formulierte es einmal so: „Glaube und Naturwissenschaft sind keine Gegensätze, sondern sie ergänzen und bedingen einander“.


Wann: 19:00 Uhr Mittwoch 4. Juni

Wo: NTI-Hörsaal (Geb.30.10)

Referent: Prof. Dr. Th. Schimmel"

[Mark]

Hi Karnadi

in this country you may attend such lectures and at any point of the speech you'e welcome to laugh loudly, and should the given explanations not cover the question how the trace from the pre-bang-creator right to the CHRISTIAN religion might be followed, then you might as well double your effort in keeping on laughing on and on. No one is going to give you any form of repression for just laughing. Keep this in mind. Do not try this at home, kids of indonesia

[karnadi]

You need either public pressure or resistance from inside the university against such missionary undertakings. However, we could try to send protest letters to the university-administration and also help you with flyers in good German in case you want do get active yourself. IF someone of us knows people or naturalistic/atheistiic organisations in Karlsruhe they could support a protest.

Thanks for the support. Do you know any fellow Brights in Karlsruhe? Do we have a list of brights constituents in which cities? Or some kind of contact person? Regional meetups?

[Gernot Back]

Hi Karl!

Sorry for not using Deutsch, (...)

Sorry for not using English like most of my fellow debaters so far, ...

... aber vor allem als Ex-Deutschlehrer (noch dazu als solcher für die DSH) denke ich, dass du dem als Student in Deutschland auch auf Deutsch folgen können solltest:

Die Veranstaltung, über die du dich so aufregst, “Der Urknall und die Gottesfrage”, war, obwohl sie in den Räumen der Universität stattfand und einen "Professor Doktor" als Vortragenden hatte, keine universitäre Veranstaltung, sondern eine, die eine unabhängige studentische Hochschulgruppe organisiert hat. Das ist nach Hochschulsatzung wahrscheinlich das Recht einer jeden Hochschulgruppe. Als Hochschulgruppe können sich Christen und Muslime genauso organisieren wie Atheisten, Feministinnen, Volkstanzfreunde oder sonst wer. Das ist in Deutschland ganz normal und gut so. Manchmal vermieten Hochschulen in Deutschland ihre Hörsäle sogar an Organisationen, die mit der Hochschule überhaupt nichts zu tun haben. So war ich z.B. am letzten Samstag auf einer Vortragsveranstaltung der Giordano-Bruno-Stiftung in der Hochschule für Musik und Tanz in Köln zum Thema "Der neue Atheismus".

Ich kann mich noch gut an meine eigene Studentenzeit an der Universität Mainz (bis 1991) erinnern. Da war ich in der dortigen Schwulen Unigruppe sehr aktiv und wir haben auch Leute zu Vorträgen eingeladen. Das hat bestimmt nicht allen an der Hochschule gefallen.

Uns hat umgekehrt auch nicht alles gefallen, was andere "Hochschulgruppen" da so für Vorträge organisierten. Einmal organisierte z.B. eine Politsekte an der Uni Mainz eine Veranstaltung, wo sich deren Oberguru dazu ausließ, wie höchst ansteckend AIDS angeblich sei. Da war der Hörsal auch fast ausschließlich mit deren Anhängern besetzt und die Vertreter von unserer Unigruppe und die der AIDS-Hilfe Mainz, die sich mit ins Publikum gemischt hatten, um ein paar kritische Fragen zu stellen, hatten keine wirkliche Chance dagegen.

So ist das halt in Deutschland. Das ist Demokratie.

Gruß Gernot

[mat-in]

We had a similar, but biological focused Lecture near the university of mainz (invitations were send out across the university) and at the University of Heidelberg directly. Most Professors / Senior Lecturers I asked to join me and oppose this Events, or at least show everyone in this room that what those people do only uses the term "science", but has nothing to do with scientific work told me that they do not want to be seen at an event like that.

People are too tolerant ("let them talk, who cares, everyone can see it's bullshit") and/or too afraid ("I do not want to be seen there, i do not want to oppose them, will damage my career."). I think it's a real problem, not to oppose them, at least on occasions where they do have publicity anyway. Less educated people could relay belive that it's science... I oppose thos electures and besides huxucans advice to laugh out loud, it's also good to ask questions that they cannot explain, right after destroying the one example they gave. Works very well, and every one open minded / undecided in the audicen will notice. the fanatics you won't reach anyway with arguments.

Besides those disturbing movements, we are not as saecular as it may seem. The Grundgesetz starts with the sentence "Im Bewußtsein seiner Verantwortung vor Gott und den Menschen, von dem Willen beseelt, als gleichberechtigtes Glied in einem vereinten Europa dem Frieden der Welt zu dienen, hat sich das Deutsche Volk kraft seiner verfassungsgebenden Gewalt dieses Grundgesetz gegeben." and you still swear on god the allmighty if you become a judge, lawyer of the state, etc. (but there is an alternative without the religios component).

[Entität]

@Karnadi

Let me share a story with you.
I am going to study at the Universität Stuttgart. Now I am participating at a preclass for math and in the breaks several groups going to present themselves. Like the students council etc. etc. This week, i think it was wednesday, there was something about engeneering. Then the presenter of the second group started:
"I study engeneering in the third semester. I dont know if I learned something and know more than before, BUT I know that the word of God is alive!"
Many people in the audience started laughing and left the room (me too, got better use for my break than listening to some mumbojumbo).
Later I was told that they were mocked with a ridicule applause.

Its freedom of religion to present nonsense, but you are free to laugh and show your nonconsent to their claims.

Greets Entity